At last shame on those that seek fame!

up to about 1813 you had salmon trout eels and much more in all three rivers in stockport. then came industrialisation .and then for the next 170 years all you would have cought then is typhoid ??? the rivers have never been so good .so dont knock what you have got.thay say you dont miss something till its gone and thats very true.i saw the rivers back in the 60s and you wouldent have liked what you saw. ( thay have never been so good)

Well said BillyFish......the river's nowhere near fooked, even if there's a broken record that keeps telling us it is. A very high proportion of the river hardly get's fished...thus the assertion is just laughable. There's absolutely no evidence.

I agree we shouldn't all go around naming swims, but even then the fish will move away from highly pressured swims (they'd be daft not too, right?, and they're NOT that daft).

John, you've come back to fishing after a 30 year hiatus. Is the river in better condition now than it was 32 years ago? Is it in a worse condition than 2 years ago? If so, on what criteria are you judging?

In the end it all comes down to "I don't want anyone else fishing my local river, particularly if they're not from round here"......

To say I'm dumbfounded by all this, is an understatement.

__________________
Cheers,

Rich

All three rivers are far better than they were 30 odd years ago. That much is obvious, although hardly relevant to the discussion. The EA and others have done a wonderful job. I never expected to be catching any river fish locally during my lifetime. But I don't measure any water just by what is caught there.

But compared to a couple of years ago, I see far more anglers on the banks, and not just in one area, although they tend to be concentrated in a couple of areas. A number of these are using very crude tackle, some in ways likely to harm fish. The remote areas are seeing more anglers too, although they tend to be largely the more serious. But if those sectors start to see reports published, they too will be degraded. Any water producing good fish will see an influx of other anglers, but to encourage it is plain foolhardy.

I pick up far more litter and line, beer cans etc nowadays. I see far more evidence of fires on the bank, noise, barbecues. Trees have been cut down in areas where they were certainly beneficial. I see more fish with lip damage, chub mainly. I saw one lad from a group of teenagers throw a small grayling at a tree in order to try and extract a deep hook.
There are many more people registered and reading the forums. Interest has bloomed. All in all I would say that the angling pressure has trebled whilst I have been fishing it. In just over two years. Last time I was on the river, two blokes approached and asked whether this was where all the big barbel are coming out.

I am not at all bothered by anglers from other areas, they will not come often. And if they do, they are likely to be serious and concerned anglers. It is not worth the journey when they can go to the Ribble or the Severn. As I have said before, it is the locals who concern me mainly. Too many of them just do not care for the river...or anywhere else that they might fish. They live locally, don't want to pay for their fishing, and don't worry about the mess they leave.

I have seen it so often in the past. Publicity harms fisheries. It is why some clubs ban it. It is harming this fishery, and I fear worse will result. It is why anglers from other rivers laugh at us. They have seen the light. Some of us have our heads buried too deeply in the sand to see that light.

I don't believe that fish move away from highly pressurised swims, other than normal seasonal migration. I suspect they remain, but become more wary. A certain swim on the Tame would suggest they may not even grow in waryness.

Hi again John - a lot of what you say is completely subjective. 'Some clubs ban publicity' is one. It's also true that the majority don't. In light of that; who's right and who's wrong. I would say there's a definite limit to how much harm publicity causes a fishery. In terms of litter and general rubbish, yes, but you can't tell me the Goyt, as a river, gets overfished? Whilst I agree that pm is busier, it's a tiny section of the river and it's not declined 'as a fishery' as far as I can tell. Isolated incidents such as the one you mention; well, we all have anecdotes about that kind of thing (I met some chaps like that 2 years ago). They'll blank once and never return.

Anglers on other rivers laughing at us? Come off it John, look at BFW; there are there are only a couple of rivers without many pages of catch reports, or photos in the gallery. The Goyt's hardly the Gt Ouse, apart from the obvious 'Mill' association. I hope the hyenas don't keep you awake at night. I sleep quite soundly thanks.

On the whole John, and in many aspects of angling, I agree with a lot of what you say. However, you're a Super Moderator on this forum and have contributed to the Goyt thread on BFW - as such, your position on publicity seems a little contradictory if I may say so. I really don't see there's any moral high ground in this case. Sorry.

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Cheers,

Rich

hi all. on the goyt this morning early as usual. not mutch to report . river low a bit of colour.chub and barbel not showing..?? [ for me anyway ] did catch about 20 dace. its nice to see them there again in numbers.billy.

"Some clubs ban publicity" is subjective? Really? Simple statement of fact, surely? Some don't, I would agree. Maybe they have yet to feel its ill effects, or want to increase membership so as to acquire other water?

Yes, as you say, there is a limit to how much harm publicity can cause to a fishery. I have seen that limit. I used to fish a water for very big bream years ago. The farmer allowed free fishing. One week another angler reported a 7 pound bream ( not huge for the water) in the Angling Times, naming the water. 7 pound bream were rare back then. The next weekend over twenty anglers turned up at all times of the day and night ( usually there were no more than two there over Saturday/Sunday). They were noisy, flashed car headlamps in the night, and left much litter. The farmer stopped all angling. It actually benefitted me, for as I walked away from the lake I asked the farmer if there was anywhere I could deposit the large amount of litter I had collected. A friend and I were given exclusive access to that water and fished it for about three years.
That is the limit: water loss to angling.

In another incident anglers left a gate open on a water. A bull got in with the pregnant cows. The bull did what bulls do, and two cows aborted that night. Very lucky not to lose that water to angling too. Only serious negotiation prevented it. The fact that all of us have these anecdotes is merely an indication of the size of the problem.
If actions on one section of river cause the FED to lose fishing, they will not just lose the affected part. All it would take then is for a club to come along with a guarantee of good bailiffing...and it is not just the PAAS we would have to worry about, the salmon and trout anglers could well be contenders.

I was asked to be a moderator, and accepted the role. I have indeed contributed to the Goyt and other threads Richard, but if you look carefully you will find very little information about my catches in there, and certainly nothing to drag in anglers chasing my captures. My recent post about light line barbel fishing does not name the water I fished. Maybe you assumed it was the Goyt? I concede that my gudgeon photograph names the Goyt, although not the swim. Have another look. You will find very little in my posts that might be construed as publicity. Barren ground Richard. Check BFW too if you wish.

And a problem is that some of these chaps do not blank. If only we could guarantee them blanks! They catch because of the mass of information provided to them. And some of them come back fairly often. And it is not just one section of river that they go to. There are two or three others too.

Publicity can do great harm. If it is completely absent it cannot have any effect. Why take the risk? What advantage is gained?

I think someone! HAS been reading a thread on another website & don't understand what that website is all about!!!!

Just remember FISHING IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.I fished Throop for 20 years.People came there in the winter to catch a P.B chub.I told them where to fish and how to do it.I feel GREAT.THE number of people who were eternaly greatfull made me feel GREAT.SHARE what we know and you will feel good about yourself.I can,t stand selfish whinging BAS...DS

And i still blanked on the ROYALTY today AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH