Originally Posted by daveroach

I like to fish knowing that i have got a good chance of catching a pb.I,ve been fishing a free stretch for the past 3 years knowing that the fish i have been targeting would beat my pb(14-06) when caught at any time of the year.I dont mind catching any barbel at any time but its nice to know that there is a chance of catching a WHOPPER.

You have a specific objective...and that's to the good. Having an objective increases your chances of achieving it. I don't ( any more) fish with the objective of a PB. If it arrives fine. In my youth, yes. Now enjoyment of my fishing matters more to me. Therefore I wouldn't personally hammer a stretch just because I knew big fish had been taken there recently. Choice again.

But PBs might matter a little more to me, if, like you Dave, I was able to see the fish in the rivers I fish. Your fishing seems much more like you vs the fish. Whereas my fishing is more me vs the river.

Supper inteligence has nothing to do with this.Ive been fishing the Dorset Stour for a very long time.Ive watched fish for litteraly hours and when ive judged a fish to be a mug to catch the number of times ive gone home with my tail between my legs dosnt bear thinking about.The amount of pressure these fish are under is phenominal.They take an awfull lot of time and effort before you are rewarded.INIT

Sorry I’m not suggesting that the River Severn will produce the next British record far from it to a certain respect I agree with you that the next record fish will probably come from fairly small stream, or a heavily fished area on a larger river. I’m saying that several top specimen anglers over the last few years have said in the angling press that the river Severn will never produce the British record. How would they know they don’t fish it they fish the small streams, or heavily fished areas where fish are known/named (where is the mystery). If ignorance is bliss then I happy to be that way and fish the River Severn with the mystery and enjoyment of who knows.

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Originally Posted by daveroach

Supper inteligence has nothing to do with this.Ive been fishing the Dorset Stour for a very long time.Ive watched fish for litteraly hours and when ive judged a fish to be a mug to catch the number of times ive gone home with my tail between my legs dosnt bear thinking about.The amount of pressure these fish are under is phenominal.They take an awfull lot of time and effort before you are rewarded.INIT

Each to their own I have no beef with anybody I was merely suggesting that a valid argument and not a unqualified statement i.e. ignorant bliss would have been better and I agree time and effort pays dividends!!!

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That's a carefully whittled, pointed stick you're poking at people John.

Personally I think the practice of 'naming' fish is ridiculous. If you're doing that, you may as well take them home and treat them as pets. That they are not. They're wild, some more than others. Sometimes they may grace your nets at other times they don't.

I find it understandable why people want to catch the biggest residents in a water but does that mean that every other capture is less important? Some of the smaller samples may well be more 'intelligent' than these gluttonous monsters.

Horses for courses I suppose. It makes no odds to me. First things first, fish for a bite then take it from there.

New waters should give everyone the extra thrill, the days of not knowing what's in them have long gone. Fishing for yourself is paramount, you go to enjoy your time on the bank.

Originally Posted by drynetter

That's a carefully whittled, pointed stick you're poking at people John. I find it understandable why people want to catch the biggest residents in a water but does that mean that every other capture is less important? Some of the smaller samples may well be more 'intelligent' than these gluttonous monsters. .

Exactly Mark. There is a great deal of fixation with catching "personal bests". People then wear that personal best "badge" as some sort of measure of achievement. The size of their largest fish is not a measure of their skill as an angler, certainly not in a non stalking environment. More a measure of how good the water they fish, how much time they spend at that water fishing in a logical way. My own biggest barbel did not come as a result of a long dedicated campaign. It was caught fairly easily, no great skill being needed. It was no harder to catch than the 6 pounder I had in the same session. And one might take it further, and ask which was theoretically the easier of the two fish to catch? It might well be a good argument, that, to maintain its weight, a larger fish must eat far more, feed for longer, and therefore will be more likely to take a bait....hence being easier to catch? Taking that argument not so very much further...might one suggest that the biggest fish in the river could be the easiest to catch?

Could this be a reason why so very many doubles are caught these days? It is one reason, the other being that there are just so many of them about nowadays. Many anglers are, after all, effectively not fishing in real waters. They are fishing in fish farms, with anglers arriving daily to feed the fish their daily pellets. Reading the forums it would seem that very few barbel anglers have not caught a double(s). Doubles used to be rarities. Not so today.
My biggest carp was the result of some well thought out fishing, but that was taken back in the 70's, when fishing was very, very different to today. You can still fish and think like that of course, and I often do, but the guy in the next swim using mass produced conventional modern techniques and baits, straight out of the box, is probably just as likely to succeed.

The "best" barbel is the one you enjoyed catching most, for whatever reason. On that basis my own personal best fish is only about half the weight of my largest.

Great post, Due to work commitments, divorces, re locations etc, up to 18 months ago i hadnt picked a rod up for nearly 25 years. When i was younger i can still remember now how hard the fishing was,i now know why. The majority of places i visited must have been more or less devoid of fish . On my return to fishing i joined a local club, which has 7 different waters, they are all stocked to the brim with diffeent species of fish, every time i fish i bag up, everybody does . I hooked a buttercup when casting out on my last visit and as soon as it touched the water i hooked a carp, i caught 29 carp in two and a half hours. To me this isnt fishing, its a bloody joke, no skill is required and consequently none of the younger anglers have served there apprenticeship, by that i mean sitting in the pouring rain for hours, fishless, having to vary different fishing techniques, change to lighter tackle, use different baits. Like everything else in life it all comes to easy.
Anyway i have ditched that in an attempt to recapture that overwhelming feeling of satisfaction when after maybe one or two blanks or 3 or 4 hours of not even an indication of a bite,the tip goes and you are into a wild fish.
I have no interest in competing for the biggest fish in the river, thats for others, like you say the biggest isnt always the best (Thats what my wife told me,ha ha). Its about the beauty of the river and surroundings and the solitude, a double figure barbel is just the icing on the cake !!

Jay - You've just about summed up why, in my original post, it is important to be able to recognise individual fish - although perhaps not realising it.

It's not about PB's or 'badge wearing' it's about understanding the population of fish in your chosen river(s).

Doubles are still pretty rare - yes, lot's of people have caught big fish, but the fact is that they are catching the same fish. On a popular stretch of the swale i fish doubles are caught quite regularly leaving the impression to the casual observer that the stretch is stuffed with big fish. The reality is there are just 6 fish in the stretch of that size which are continually re-caught. Another good example is the Ribble, look through the weeklies and read the Forums and you would be lead to believe there are dozens of massive fish in the 13-15lb class in the river. Sadly not, again just one or two fish that are recaught. Observation by anglers has prooved these same fish comute through over 5 miles of river, passing through 6 different club and day stretches so you can see how the casual angler can reach such conclusions.

Lastly - just because a fish is know to regulars and has a name - doesn't make it any easier to catch. A lot of you are from the manchester area so why not drop on to Clifton Marina and show us how easy pet fish like Angry, Peter and Walnut are to catch.

Finally - since most of the big fish in our rivers are known and recognised it beggers belief why some anglers claim false weights - a 19lb'er was reported off the Ribble last year in the AT - odd considering the same fish was caught a couple of weeks before at just over 14 - that's some weight gain! I see stigman has upset a few of the regulars by claiming a 16lb 8oz fish from said river. Would love to see a pic of it - it can't be any of the fish in his gallery as the biggest fish shown is a well known fish ( called Spikey to his friends ) and he tops out at 15lb - that's winter weight - summer is between 13,8 and 14. Sure he looks massive - but 16,8 - no.

Originally Posted by Barbel Seeker

Jay - You've just about summed up why, in my original post, it is important to be able to recognise individual fish - although perhaps not realising it. It's not about PB's or 'badge wearing' it's about understanding the population of fish in your chosen river(s).

That also sums up the exact opposite. The point I make that I, personally, do not want to be able to sum up the fish population in a stretch. I don't want to know how many doubles there are. I don't want to de-mystify it all. I don't want to know what time the kingfisher is due to fly past. The element of surprise is so very important. It is why, for me, and I hope for at least some others, it is important not to be able to recognise individual fish. Knowing a fish's name may not make it any easier to catch, but it sure as hell tells you how big it will be when you land it, close enough that others can tell you when your scales are inaccurate! I enjoy that moment in the dark, when, having landed a fish, I watch to see how far the scale pointer rotates. To see if it comes close to my guess, made moments before in the dim light of a fading headtorch. I am not looking to see if it is 4 ounces bigger or smaller than when Fred Bloggs caught it last month.

Angling is surely by far the most unpredictable of sports and pastimes. It is part of its beauty. I don't understand why so many seek to remove so much of that charm.

It does not really matter to me what another angler catches, it is of no concern that he may, intentionally or not, have exaggerated the size of his fish. I don't read the comics, so I won't be misled by their reports. The angling press, like the daily redtops, often report exactly what they are told They don't often seek to verify the details. Not in their interests. Sometimes they even actively lie if it helps the story along. Anyone reading the papers has to decide for himself how much to believe, and how much to discard. Even top well known anglers can talk rubbish at times.

Barbel Seeker, firstly thank you for the response, I must say if you want to get caught up in the social science of fish all power to you I have no beef with that I’m sure it’s very interesting, personally I go fishing to enjoy being sat in the middle of nowhere and watching what happens around me and the unpredictability of what can happen i.e. like having a Lancaster Bomber fly over the top of you following the river, and if I land any fish fantastic.

I do somewhat subscribe to the theory of PB’s but this is surely human nature some measure of achievement it’s what we are taught in schools from a young age, it doesn’t mean to me anyway that if I catch a smaller fish than that it is somehow substandard. In fact the last Barbel I caught was 6lb 2oz on a new stretch that I had never fished before and I think I was as surprised as the fish was at being caught as it was in pristine condition, beautiful and I don’t think although I can’t qualify it that it had ever been caught before.

I would agree with you that doubles are rare as I’ve only ever caught one myself (10lb 9oz my PB) although I have seen several others. My point regarding the river Great Ouse was that the same fish were coming out time and time again so I agree to the casual observer it would seem that it was stuffed with big fish weather it is or not I don’t know and don’t care as I will probably never fish it and really don’t want to. I think that your statement of only 6 resident double figure fish in a stretch is somewhat baffling as I would say how do you know that for sure, a river is a totally wild environment and I would suggest that unless that section of the river is somehow netted off and a survey is carried out who knows!!

I would also agree with your point about just because a fish has a name doesn’t make it any easier to catch! I think the whole process of naming fish has stemmed from the Carp world and as I think I made somewhat clear in my original post that as far as I’m concerned Carp fishing on lakes is like fishing a large garden pond there is no mystery everybody knows what’s in the lake, although I would say that there must be some skill in it as not everybody turns up and catches the record fish. Anyway who am I to suggest that it is any less worthwhile than what I do, I’m sure it’s not it’s just my opinion. I have 2 pet Mirror Carp in my pond Bert and Bob and I like watching them but don’t want to catch them.

As for Angry, Peter and Walnut why were they not given a number as that would be the more socially accepted protocol for a fish social science project?

Personally I know that every fish I’ve caught is whatever weight it is as otherwise what’s the point, you’re only fooling/cheating yourself. It never ceases to amaze me that when I’m looking over the angling press the amount of people claiming weights and you can clearly see from the photo it’s not the weight they are claiming. Unfortunately the sport I love is sometimes full of BS but maybe that a debate for another post!!!

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