A local Stillwater lake started stocking Barbel about a year ago and after several conversations with them they have decided that it is a reasonable for them to do so. Personally I have major problems with this and believe it to be very detrimental to the fish, I’ve done a small amount of research into this mainly from the Barbel Society’s website plus a few others and below are some quotes off the Barbel Society’s website. I would like to gather more information and gauge other Barbel Anglers view on this so thought I’d start this thread to see what your thoughts on this matter are??

10. Barbel require conditions to spawn which cannot be found in stillwaters and naturally sustaining populations of barbel in stillwaters are not possible.

11. Barbel are less tolerant of high water temperatures and low oxygen levels that stillwater fish such as tench and carp. The lethal concentration of oxygen is almost twice as high for barbel that it is for tench.

12. More barbel have been stocked into stillwaters than all the rivers put together. These stillwater stockings are frequently repeated as the only impact they have is to increase the mortality rates of the stillwater fishery.

13. Barbel are great wanderers in rivers, often moving several kilometres in a matter of days in order to seek suitable conditions when changes in water temperature, flow rates etc. occur and also to suit their seasonal needs. Barbel cannot do this in the commercial stillwaters.

14. Commercial stillwaters do not provide the correct habitat for barbel to thrive not just the water quality is in question but the overhead cover is usually missing.

19. Barbel are stocked into commercial stillwaters without any thought for the fish themselves but for financial gain - greed !

20. Barbel spend most of their lives on the river bed and in stillwaters they have a greater risk of parasites in these conditions.

21. The potential for recapture is far greater in stillwaters than it is in rivers and barbel will experience increased stress when frequently caught and more so at spawning time by being unable to spawn in stillwater conditions. Barbel frequently die after capture from stillwaters.

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Personally think it's wrong.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that fisheries/clubs stocking Barbel in stillwater have to have some kind of permission from the EA? I may be wrong? Wasn't it originally undertaken as some kind of experiment? Too many questions to answer I suppose. The thing is, they're resident in these stagnant puddles now. There's no real way to go back. It's a foolhardy practice, they don't belong in stillwaters hence why they're found in Rivers

point 21 is interesting, I'd be interested to read where they get the information that stillwater fish "frequently" die after capture. Not saying it isn't so, but commercial fisheries would surely prefer to stock pond pigs that eat like gluttonous oafs if that were indeed the case.

I have refused to fish any commercial fishery that stock barbel.

I have seen photos of a 8lbs barbel from a commercail still water that was in very good condition, I dont belive that the owners of the lake would have bought barbel at this weight.

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Hi Jam,

Well you have certainly got very similar views to myself. There are a couple of fisheries local to me that have stocked barbel and have gained good financial benefits from doing so. This is something that seriously boils my blood. I remember on one occasion when i was match fishing regular going to one of these fisheries and many barbel being caught... Following this a large number of the barbel were found floating in the reed rich margins! Still to this day i can remember how my stomach turned when hearing the news and seeing for myself just what people are willing to do to line there wallets!! Since this the fishery has been stocked yearly with barbel which can only mean that the fish are not surviving and able to sustane healthy numbers in the water!!!

How are these people allowed to do this and why isn't anyone doing anything about this?? Cant the environment agency not put a stop to such cruelty!!!

Quote:

I have seen photos of a 8lbs barbel from a commercail still water that was in very good condition, I dont belive that the owners of the lake would have bought barbel at this weight.

From the lake in question I've seen a photo of an 11lb fish and it has only been in approx a year looked rough too!! I don't fish commercial lakes full stop glorified garden ponds!!!

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Quote:

How are these people allowed to do this and why isn't anyone doing anything about this?? Cant the environment agency not put a stop to such cruelty!!!

My thoughts exactly!!

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Originally Posted by bsmallinson

How are these people allowed to do this and why isn't anyone doing anything about this?? Cant the environment agency not put a stop to such cruelty!!!

If everything you read below is correct it seems that the EA actually sanction the stockings?

Whilst this has split opinions among fishery interests, the Environment Agency's view is that some stillwaters are suitable for the fish to thrive. Water quality is the key factor, but it is difficult to determine which waters are suitable. A new study has provided the EA with a better way of doing this.

The study was carried out by EA Fisheries Scientist Ms Ayesha Taylor for her Hull University MSc Fisheries Science Degree thesis on the growth of stocked barbel in stillwater fisheries.

She monitored the growth rates of barbel in 10 stillwater fisheries and 30 rivers, including the Thames, Great Ouse, Teme and Nidd. In order not to compromise the study the participating fisheries have remained anonymous.

Barbel are a bottom-dwelling species preferring cleaner rivers with stretches of gravel, riffles, pools and deeper glides. Its torpedo-shaped body with large triangular pectoral fins is designed to cope with fast river flows, explained Environment Agency Fisheries Policy Manager Adrian Taylor.

But the study shows stillwaters which are not heavily stocked and which have few, if any, carp offer a suitable environment for barbel to feed, grow and maintain health and condition.

Water quality determines whether barbel can thrive in stillwaters. However, this can vary even on a daily basis, and so it is difficult to be precise about which stillwaters are suitable on this basis. Water quality is heavily influenced by stock density, and the presence of carp in particular, so we can now use these criteria to determine suitability. In summary, the way a fishery is managed is key to whether or not barbel can be stocked.

Our policy, therefore, remains the same: barbel may be stocked into suitable stillwaters. However, the guidance we use to determine suitability will be changed so it is based broadly on fishery type, rather than water quality.

The Environment Agency has new guidance is that barbel should not be stocked into stillwaters that have:-
• an enhanced stock density;
• a predominance of carp;
• a history of mortalities.

From 2000-2006, 326 applications to stock barbel in stillwaters were granted across 283 different sites. In 2005 there were 60 consented applications.

The existing rules for introducing barbel into stillwaters are:-

Wild caught river fish should not be used to stock stillwaters. Such stocks should be obtained from a fish farm or existing stillwater population.

The nature of the receiving waterbody must be suitable for the fish to thrive in terms of feeding, growth, health and condition. It is not necessary for the fish to be able to breed.

The application should be supported by appropriate water quality information. (Note that this final requirement will be replaced with the new policy guidance based on fishery type.

I'm sure that there are more things to be take into consideration than growth rates. Suitable environments maybe, but it doesn't say anything about breeding?

It is hard to be truly objective about subjects like this . I also do not like the idea of barbel in stillwaters, but my not liking it does not make it wrong. I like to see my barbel in fast flowing clean streams. But precedents have been long ago set, and how many of you would now object to the presence of rainbow trout in some of our stillwaters? Another fish of fast oxygenated streams, and those poor buggers even get eaten for breakfast once caught.

The barbel society make a number of points but they are hardly an unbiased contributor to the discussion. Their opinions are skewed, as one might expect.

Point 10: maybe it is a good thing that barbel are unable to spawn in stillwaters. At least it means that they can be eradicated, with little effort, by waiting a few years until the population dies out. Try that with carp, another fish that is really an alien to the UK's stillwaters. But are barbel definitely unable to spawn in stillwaters...has that been proved conclusively? What might happen in a large, clearwater gravel pit?

Point 11:Stating the obvious, albeit with one huge error. The sentence should read something like: The concentration of oxygen that would be lethal is almost twice as low for barbel that it is for tench.

Point 12: Again somewhat obvious. There is little point in stocking barbel into rivers where they have been long established. Over time the numbers would again revert to "normal" ( by means of unusually high mortality?) . So one might expect more stocking into stillwaters. Any stocking, into any water will increase mortality rates in the fishery. More fish present, more fish die. Doesn't matter what species you stock. Any water has the potential to naturally support X amount of fish, and to support Y amount of fish if the feed goes in daily, where Y >> X. Any fish addition by stocking stresses a water, and probably stresses the fish too.

Point 13: nothing to stop barbel moving around in stillwaters. They might not get kilometers from their start point, but neither are they constrained to move in a straight line, one dimensionally, up or downriver. The point about seeking water of a different temperature is very fanciful. Rivers have very heavy mixing of the water, and significant temperature differences in barbel rivers just do not happen. Their environmental temperature is very very uniform. In stillwaters, where the thermocline, and localised warming by the sun in the shallows occurs, there can be very large differences in temperature.
Seasonal needs: breeding already mentioned in point 10, seeking a chill out zone in winter is probably easier in a stillwater, where no current has to be avoided.

Point 14: correct habitat? Barbel thrive in the Trent, and few of those fish spend much time underneath trees. The Waal in the Netherlands has more or less zero tree cover. Depth seems to provide a suitable alternative to overhead cover.

Point 19: commercial gain. Profit is what all commercial fisheries are really about. Whether those fisheries are trout, carp, tench, pike or whatever. Why should barbel not be treated the same? We have sturgeon, golden orfe, Koi carp,catfish. Koi carp, for God's sake! All added for commercial gain. Greed? Well, no more than the local newsagent is greedy. Both are just earning a living. Without commercials there would be less water to fish. Without commercials many of your barbel rivers would be lined with matchmen every weekend. Do stocked club waters show any more concern for the fish? As long as anglers want barbel in stillwaters there will be commercials willing to provide them with that service.

Point 20: speculation. Although it is possible that barbel will be subject to attacks by different parasites in stillwater, because parasites have various life stages, in which they infect different organisms ( eg snails) it is probable that some of their more usual parasites will not be able to survive in stillwater. They may fall foul of new parasites of course...if they are able to infect an alien species.

Point 21: recapture potential. I once caught the same river fish three times in 10 days. At least one other angler caught it during that time. I suspect in a stillwater a barbel will wander more, and be less likely to remain in that favourite hot-spot swim. So again a speculative point. Is recapture frequency such a bad thing?
I remember reading, with a grin on my face, that "Two Tone" had been caught only about 50 times in his lifetime. 50 times! Didn't seem to bother that carp's growth rate, if growth rate is indeed a measure of how healthy a fish is.

I would have been interested to see some of Ms Taylor's conclusions on stillwater growth rates. As most stillwater barbel have been stocked for anglers, and more specifically, for anglers who throw in bait daily, I suspect she is likely to have been measuring growth rates for farmed barbel, rather than comparing river and stillwater fish growth rates.

There is a suggestion in the thread that large barbel have been stocked into some stillwaters. Sourced from a river? Where else? I definitely disaprove of that. A fish acclimatised to one environment should not endure such a great transition.

I do not like the idea of any barbel being stocked into a stillwater, but cannot really condemn the practice. For some anglers it will be their only chance to catch barbel. The fish may well grow to be obese, and die young, but is it so really wrong, when we put gorillas in cages, many other animals in zoos, keep caged birds as pets, cats in the house, dogs, rabbits... Is it so wrong therefore to put barbel into a large lake?

I wouldn't go out to seek such barbel myself, but cannot really object very strongly to others who do. Angling has changed. Commercials are here to stay. Clubs will also be under pressure to stock barbel. I don't like it, but it is the way of much modern angling.

it all comes down to pound notes really dont you think as in the latest fad is barbel along with all other types of rig line braid whats all that about ? any angler worth there salts wont fish a pond for barbel if they do then they are obviously crap at angling or have no local rivers to catch barbel from but the later is no exuse for the stocking of barbel in ponds/lakes. i refuse to fish any lake that has barbel in it barbel are river fish leave them there is what i think bloody money grabbing so and so's mutter mutter

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What about the wensum, barbel have been stocked into the river and they cant sustain themselves in the river for whatever reason, then they shouldnt be in there same with stillwaters , if the habitat is not correct dont put em in.