Having read more about the increase in otters in this country and the percieved damage to fish stocks, i just wondered what in general do you guys think. After John Wilson and other well known anglers coming out with statements about the damage they are doing, has anyone first hand experiance of the above.

I personally think we should live with nature if we truly love the enviroment we fish in, and despite years on the bank and being an avid wildlife photographer, the only damage i can definately say i have seen has been caused by mink. What does everyone else think?

A friend of mine had a walk around Throop the other day and could,nt find a barbel anywhere.Check out the Ringwood and District web site and see what the otters have done to our local waters.

Well, I first took up a rod in my hand some 50 years ago, and up until yesterday had only ever seen otters in zoos. But fishing yesterday morning one swam down into my swim, climbed out and walked along a fallen tree trunk that was 2/3 the way across the river, just eight or ten yards from me. As it reached the end of the trunk it turned to look at me for some 20 seconds or so, whiskers on full display.
It then slipped soundlessly back into the water and swam underwater, its presence revealed by just a small trail of bubbles rising to the surface.
In all those years I had never before seen a wild otter, and if this one had dived in and taken a double figure barbel from right in front of me, I would still have been enthralled to see it. I would not have been in any way upset by its having its breakfast.
That statement may well seem controversial to some anglers in here, but I stand by it. What a magnificent creature. Seeing it gave me far more pleasure than all the fish I had caught during the trip.

Sadly the camera was in my bag, out of the rain. I don't consider fish that otters take as damage, they need to eat just like I do. Otter numbers may well be on the increase, but they are probably still well below the numbers that there used to be in Britain.

good post john,i agree to a degree 'wild life' is wild and as you say everything needs to eat,if we as hunters (anglers) fished for double figure otters and double figure fish were eating them lets face it we'd all moan about the fish killing the otters,nature will always right itself it may take along time but it will balance itself out,how many have marvelled at programmes where big cats take down a buffalo or bison and thought it was an amazing site,lets just get on with enjoying whats there while its there and stop griping.

cheers

kev.

Wait till you have no barbel to fish for.Then we,ll see how you view these pests.Nearly all the otters that you see are not wild but are hand reared and put in our rivers.What are you gonna do when English Nature bring back wolves which used to roam our countryside.I know its not the otters fault that the barbel in our rivers are dissapearing,it,s the bloody idiots who put them there.Hopefully when all our fish have gone the otter dos,nt turn to killing little kids yo eat.

Once in the river and feeding themselves they are effectively wild. Hand reared or not, if they are successfully feeding and breeding they are now a fully fledged part of the eco-system. They will not have been released in such numbers that they were instantly overpopulated.
In my area if the otters (of which I am sure there are probably fairly few locally) were to take all the barbel, it would just be a return to status quo. For like the otters, any barbel local to here have been introduced by anglers. Surely all otter re-introductions have been into areas in which they were nearly extinct, but in which they did at one time exist.
Anglers dare not campaign for the eradication, or reduction in the number of otters. To the public at large otters are playful cuddly creatures, an opinion majorly reinforced into every person who has ever read or watched "Ring of Bright Water". For anglers to suggest a cull of otters would be about as popular as suggesting that there be a cull of domestic cats.
Anglers need Joe Public on their sides, and to be honest a lot of anglers already substantially alienate the public with litter, discarded line killing birds, drinking on the bank, fires, late night noise, etc. etc. The public reared up against fox hunting. We will only have ourselves to blame if they similarly attack angling.
And I would rather have your Throop otters than our old tyres and shopping trolleys.

You are so short sighted.Come down and have a look for yourself.It,s idiots like you that are going to ruin all the great fishing we,ve enjoyed over the past years.REBEL and stand up to the stupid people who are doing this to our fisheries or mark my word there will be no fish left to fish for.

Short-sighted, me? Ah! So that is probably why it has taken 50 years for me to see my first otter. Otters will establish a natural balance between the fish , themselves, road traffic, idiots with shotguns, and the Otter Trust. It is fairly well known that they are territorial, and this will also become a limiting factor to their numbers. There will never be no fish left, for a predator/prey relationship requires that there are sufficient prey left for the predators to be able to find enough to eat.
If the otters are taking barbel from some rivers: tough. If you are blanking, also tough, accept the blanks, and look around you. There is far, far more to angling that just having masses of fish, all lining up and waiting to be caught. Unfortunately many modern anglers have been brought up to expect to find fish just pleading to be caught. Its why the commercials are so successful, no-one wants to have to work hard for their fish any more. Angling has been dumbed down to suit the masses, and to benefit those who seek to profit from angling. Barbel used to be fairly rare. Nowadays there are so many more of them, in so many rivers, and they are so much bigger. It has never been so damned easy to catch a double figure barbel. Otters or no otters!

Call me an idiot if you like, but sorry, I think the otter has a well deserved place in our river systems, and I will always be pleased to see one..or several. And if that should be at the expense of barbel in my favourite river, so be it.
Those that are helping the otters re-establish their numbers following the pesticide related otter numbers reduction in the 50's, 60's and 70's, are not stupid people. They are just people who like the countryside in general, and otters in particular.
Were the Avon and Stour barbel not introductions as well? Not native to those rivers as far as I am able to research. There must have been some people who thought "Why are these idiots introducing barbel into the Avon?" And later zander and barbel into the Severn. How many waters have anglers now introduced carp into? Only now are anglers starting to protest at the sheer acreage of water in which the carp now rules supreme. And the barbel is spreading very quickly too. Scotland now. How long before Ireland has them too?
Otters were naturally in your local rivers, barbel apparently not. OK, so you really, really, like barbel. Not everyone does.

Bring on the wolves.

Bring on the wolves indeed.And while they are at it lets bring back the European bear.You AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH

Well, why not the bear? The Americans have seen no need to exterminate their bears and wolves. They have learned to cope with them.

Man has so often exterminated those creatures which have either been a threat to him, or been a valuable food source. The bear, wolf, beaver in the Uk alone. The dodo, several species of Galapagos giant tortoise.... Many other creatures now threatened: tigers, rhinos, various whale species....

Food and threats may well have seemed valid reasons at the time to kill the animals concerned. But to try and cull or exterminate a native species like the otter because it affects your angling catch rates is just not good enough, and that is how the public would see any such attempts.

I'll back off now, and hope to see others join the debate.

Think what you like about otters....but think a hell of a lot more before you suggest we kill some of them.